[V2] Karma revisted

HinterWelt · **Posted:** Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:47 pm

This is what I have so far for Karma. I am thinking of linking it to Codes so that you earn Karma back by fulfilling your codes during play. The problem is then, what is your codes are Family, Your Dog and Wealth but you are on a quest to save the Orphanage of No Money, you could be screwed. Still, I like the idea of linking it to in game play.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Bill

Quote:

Karma (KAR) Optional
A character receives 1 Karma for every 10 points of LUC. One Karma point may be spent to re-roll a skill, stat check or to hit roll that would otherwise have failed. Alternatively, before a skill is rolled, a player may spend three Karma in order to assure that a skill is successful. At the discretion of the GM, the effects of a failed roll may be enforced regardless of Karma. For instance, a failed Disarm Traps may result in the trap being set off even if the player still has Karma. Skills such as Search would not have these consequences since failure has no physical effect. Karma may be spent as many times as the player wants on a single action until all points are exhausted. For example, if a player has ten Karma and wishes to, they may re-roll their Search skill up to ten times. If the desired result is not reached by then, the last result stands.
At the Game Master’s discretion, Karma may be used to perform extraordinary feats such as leaping from one building to another across an alley based on skills the character possesess. In this case, the skill would be Acrobatics. The use of Karma in this manner causes the game to be more cinematic and everyone in the group should agree to their use in this manner. They cannot be used to alter the primary plot of the game; i.e. “I use a Karma Point so the main opponent is dead.”
Karma Points are recovered at the end of a session.
Karma Cost
Cost Description
1 Reroll a skill
1 +5% to hit, skill, or stat save
1 1 additional die of damage
2 1 additional attack
3 Perform an extraordinary feat
3 Automatically successful skill check

BlackFalcon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:18 pm **Posts:** 31

I like the idea of linking Karma to Codes because it will encourage players to pay attention to those Codes, giving them a solid benefit. As GM it will also encourage me to think about offering story goals that draw from the character's Codes / motivations, as this will strengthen the player's commitment to the objectives their characters have. It will also discourage the player who delights in making their Codes / motivations oppose the group norms. The biggest plus is that it will do all this in a non-heavyhanded manner, simply offering a hard benefit to good behaviours.

Does that make sense?

HinterWelt · **Posted:** Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:57 am

BlackFalcon wrote:

I like the idea of linking Karma to Codes because it will encourage players to pay attention to those Codes, giving them a solid benefit. As GM it will also encourage me to think about offering story goals that draw from the character's Codes / motivations, as this will strengthen the player's commitment to the objectives their characters have. It will also discourage the player who delights in making their Codes / motivations oppose the group norms. The biggest plus is that it will do all this in a non-heavyhanded manner, simply offering a hard benefit to good behaviours.

Does that make sense?

Definitely. This is precisely along the lines of what I was thinking. It helped a great deal to see someone else come to the same conclusions.

Anything you would add to what you can spend Karma on?

Thanks,
Bill

BlackFalcon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:18 pm **Posts:** 31

Quote:

Anything you would add to what you can spend Karma on?

To be honest, and this comes mostly from my relative unfamiliarity with Iridium, I think those options are more than generous. If anything, I am slightly nervous about the automatic pass of a skill check option, but I don't think it's too big a deal. The only thing to definately add is that I would like you to give guidelines in the rules on how often Karma should be awarded and some clear examples of the types of things that might earn it.

Hope that helps.

HinterWelt · **Posted:** Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:25 pm

BlackFalcon wrote:

Quote:

Anything you would add to what you can spend Karma on?

To be honest, and this comes mostly from my relative unfamiliarity with Iridium, I think those options are more than generous. If anything, I am slightly nervous about the automatic pass of a skill check option, but I don't think it's too big a deal. The only thing to definately add is that I would like you to give guidelines in the rules on how often Karma should be awarded and some clear examples of the types of things that might earn it.

Hope that helps.

O.k. I will try and work up some examples.

Should we raise the auto-success cost? Or do you think we should just delete it? In play test most folks use the re-roll much more than auto success siting the cost. Generally, at 3 KAR, it is about 1/3 of a very high KAR pool.

Bill

BlackFalcon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:18 pm **Posts:** 31

Quote:

Should we raise the auto-success cost? Or do you think we should just delete it?

I can't speak from enough play experience to be sure on adjusting the cost.

My hesitation comes from anything that allows an auto-success... although that can be useful - especially when it's a life or death die roll. I prefer to allow "auto-success" to be the subtle and not-realised decision of the GM rather than giving the players a "get-out-of-jail-free card", but there are arguements both ways.

My take is that you should probably leave it in because as a GM I am capable of saying, "my house rule is that we don't allow auto-successes from Karma."

Hope that helps you.

HinterWelt · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:28 am

BlackFalcon wrote:

Quote:

Should we raise the auto-success cost? Or do you think we should just delete it?

I can't speak from enough play experience to be sure on adjusting the cost.

My hesitation comes from anything that allows an auto-success... although that can be useful - especially when it's a life or death die roll. I prefer to allow "auto-success" to be the subtle and not-realised decision of the GM rather than giving the players a "get-out-of-jail-free card", but there are arguements both ways.

My take is that you should probably leave it in because as a GM I am capable of saying, "my house rule is that we don't allow auto-successes from Karma."

Hope that helps you.

I can say pretty confidently that it does not have as horrible an effect as you might think. That said, perhaps an explanation about dropping individual elements you can spend Karma on?

Thanks again,
Bill

BlackFalcon · **Joined:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:18 pm **Posts:** 31

Quote:

...perhaps an explanation about dropping individual elements you can spend Karma on?

If you mean, a note to say "feel free to houserule any of those Karma options out", then that sounds ok - especially if you can give an indication of the likely impact on the game. More important, however, is to give examples on how to earn the Karma points and how they link to Codes. That will reinforce the usage with players and clarify it for GMs.

HinterWelt · **Posted:** Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:59 pm

BlackFalcon wrote:

Quote:

...perhaps an explanation about dropping individual elements you can spend Karma on?

If you mean, a note to say "feel free to houserule any of those Karma options out", then that sounds ok - especially if you can give an indication of the likely impact on the game. More important, however, is to give examples on how to earn the Karma points and how they link to Codes. That will reinforce the usage with players and clarify it for GMs.

Definitely. I will get to work on this.

Thanks,
Bill

clash bowley · **Posted:** Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:04 am

Quote:

Karma (KAR) Optional
A character receives 1 Karma for every 10 points of LUC. One Karma point may be spent to re-roll a skill, stat check or to hit roll that would otherwise have failed. Alternatively, before a skill is rolled, a player may spend three Karma in order to assure that a skill is successful. At the discretion of the GM, the effects of a failed roll may be enforced regardless of Karma. For instance, a failed Disarm Traps may result in the trap being set off even if the player still has Karma. Skills such as Search would not have these consequences since failure has no physical effect. Karma may be spent as many times as the player wants on a single action until all points are exhausted. For example, if a player has ten Karma and wishes to, they may re-roll their Search skill up to ten times. If the desired result is not reached by then, the last result stands.
At the Game Master’s discretion, Karma may be used to perform extraordinary feats such as leaping from one building to another across an alley based on skills the character possesess. In this case, the skill would be Acrobatics. The use of Karma in this manner causes the game to be more cinematic and everyone in the group should agree to their use in this manner. They cannot be used to alter the primary plot of the game; i.e. “I use a Karma Point so the main opponent is dead.”
Karma Points are recovered at the end of a session.
Karma Cost
Cost Description
1 Reroll a skill
1 +5% to hit, skill, or stat save
1 1 additional die of damage
2 1 additional attack
3 Perform an extraordinary feat
3 Automatically successful skill check

I have no problem with the automatic success. I'd add " Cost 2 Allow another PC to automatically succeed on a skill check." It costs less to be a be a team player.

I like the idea of tying it to codes. I think if a player character has codes that are not conducive to recovering karma in the context of the campaign, I would ask the player why he thought a character with these codes should be with this party. Codes are what the character is all about. If a character's codes are antithetical or orthogonal to the rest of the party, he probably doesn't belong with the party. OTOH, igf the whole party is having trouble tying their codes into the campaign, the GM really ought to look carefully at the campaign itself.

-clash

HinterWelt · **Posted:** Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:56 pm

clash bowley wrote:

I have no problem with the automatic success. I'd add " Cost 2 Allow another PC to automatically succeed on a skill check." It costs less to be a be a team player.

I like the idea of tying it to codes. I think if a player character has codes that are not conducive to recovering karma in the context of the campaign, I would ask the player why he thought a character with these codes should be with this party. Codes are what the character is all about. If a character's codes are antithetical or orthogonal to the rest of the party, he probably doesn't belong with the party. OTOH, igf the whole party is having trouble tying their codes into the campaign, the GM really ought to look carefully at the campaign itself.

-clash

I like the idea of letting someone spend Karma for another person.

I will add it in.

Thanks,
Bill

clash bowley · **Posted:** Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:19 am

HinterWelt wrote:

clash bowley wrote:

I have no problem with the automatic success. I'd add " Cost 2 Allow another PC to automatically succeed on a skill check." It costs less to be a be a team player.

I like the idea of tying it to codes. I think if a player character has codes that are not conducive to recovering karma in the context of the campaign, I would ask the player why he thought a character with these codes should be with this party. Codes are what the character is all about. If a character's codes are antithetical or orthogonal to the rest of the party, he probably doesn't belong with the party. OTOH, igf the whole party is having trouble tying their codes into the campaign, the GM really ought to look carefully at the campaign itself.

-clash

I like the idea of letting someone spend Karma for another person.

I will add it in.

Thanks,
Bill

Cool! Glad I could help!

-clash

HinterWelt · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:08 pm

Updated Karma:

Karma (KAR) Optional
A character receives 1 Karma for every 10 points of LUC. One Karma point may be spent to re-roll a skill, stat check or to hit roll that would otherwise have failed. Alternatively, before a skill is rolled, a player may spend three Karma in order to assure that a skill is successful. At the discretion of the GM, the effects of a failed roll may be enforced regardless of Karma. For instance, a failed Disarm Traps may result in the trap being set off even if the player still has Karma. Skills such as Search would not have these consequences since failure has no physical effect. Karma may be spent as many times as the player wants on a single action until all points are exhausted. For example, if a player has ten Karma and wishes to, they may re-roll their Search skill up to ten times. If the desired result is not reached by then, the last result stands.
At the Game Master’s discretion, Karma may be used to perform extraordinary feats such as leaping from one building to another across an alley based on skills the character possesess. In this case, the skill would be Acrobatics. The use of Karma in this manner causes the game to be more cinematic and everyone in the group should agree to their use in this manner. They cannot be used to alter the primary plot of the game; i.e. “I use a Karma Point so the main opponent is dead.”
Karma Points are recovered whenever the character acts in line with his Code. This is awarded immediately as it happens and cannot take the character’s Karma Point total over his normal Karma total;i.e. if the character’s Karma pool is normally 5, he cannot exceed it but acting out his Code. An example of acting out his code is if a character has a Code of Family, Friends, and Gourmand he would receive Karma if he defended his families honor or saved his friend’s life or ate an extraordinary meal. Whether an action does or does not qualify is up tot he GM’s discretion. He also may award any amount but it is recommended to be between 1 and 3 points per incident with 1 point for a minor expression of code and 3 for a exemplary expression. In some cases, the expression of a character’s Code will not qualify and no award will be granted. This is at the discretion of the GM.
Karma Cost
Cost Description
1 Reroll a skill
1 +5% to hit, skill, or stat save
1 1 additional die of damage
2 1 additional attack
2 Allow another player to Reroll a skill or Stat Check
3 Perform an extraordinary feat
3 Automatically successful skill check
4 Automatically successful skill check for another player

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[V2] Karma revisted

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