HinterWelt Fora

Just had a thought, what happens to their "Pterodactyl" style tails when they put on a vacc suit or combat armor?!

Do you think they just have a hole to stick it out of imagine that in a vacc suit
or maybe they kind of coil it up under their bodies and have a deeper space under the posterior of the suit to
store the tail in, I cant really imagine them having some kind of flexible tail sheash fitted to teh armor
but maybe, who knows?

As for their tails in armor, It depends on how rigid and how long the tails are. If, like the apes, they have evolved long enough, then you can just eliminate the tails from their anatomy.

I guess this is how I envisioned them: Their beaks have converted to bone, their wings have disappeared, and their tails have withdrawn. Their arms and legs have grown more muscular, and they look more like a human than a pterodactyl. It sounds like you are not envisioning them this far converted though, so maybe you should clarify some of of their anatomical features. It would probably be more fun to only be halfway converted though. So, one meter tail, semi-rigid. Ten centimeters thick and twenty centimeters tall at the base of the tail, tapering out. One piece armor that looks like a pterodactyl with jet pack for limited flight(1000m). Their fighters look like pterodactyls too.

Hi Scotty,
thanks, I really do appreciate your opinions, they really help, I think I am now considering this project a joint
effort, Scott and Al's big scary monster

height is something I didnt even think about, I guess thye shuold be about 6-7 feet tall
but maybe it would be really funny to make them midgets, about 4 feet tall tops

I really like the idea of the tail, I dunno, it just fits for me, we could lose it but it would be a lot of character gone I feel
hmm, tricky

I TOTALLY go with the beaks converted to bone bit (along with having the jigsaw/ridge like bone structure on their heads
maybe they pack a hell of a headbutt!!! )

jet packs osund ok but I woudl rather go with flying cbt suits if it isnt going to rip off Traveller too much
I wouldnt want to make the armor or fighters actually look like a pterodactyle though, that would, for me anyhow, be just a little too cheesy, I still really like the sharp, edges and modern look idea, kind of Manga meets stormtroopers I guess

I dont really envision them as being all that muscular though, I kind of saw them as big chested but skinny
dunno

Re attributes
would we agree on +4 Agility and +2 Dex (to get the shooting bonus) +1 Str
- 2 con (and a DEFINITE weakness to bad/poisoned air)
rest I need to think about (or look back at what you wrote earlier )

Hi Al,

what I meant about their arms and legs getting more muscular, was meant to be in comparison to a birds wings and legs. Their limbs would still be lacking in overall girth compared to a humans though.

As for the stats, I guess I was thinking that a humanoid converted from a bird would be lighter and more maneuverable, so AGI +3 sounds good.

If the hand bones are long and dextrous, then maybe they wouldn't have great strength, per se, but great leverage for throwing things. If you give them a high DEX for their long fingers, then maybe their large pectorals and long arms give them a STR bonus on leverage type tasks, like thrown weapon. It would be easy enough to justify a +3 DEX, and no STR bonus, but a +6 STR bonus for damage on thrown weapons.

a -2 CON seems reasonable because of lighter bones and sensitive respiratory system.

An entire species in a Caste system, reduces their WIL and CHA both -2. (Mostly because you have to offset all the bonuses!)

That leaves the Mental and Spiritual stats for Caste differences. How about this: Intelligentsia, +2 INT; Warriors, +2 APP; Craftsmen, +2 WIS; Workers, +2 PIE. What other Castes would you include?

This model would give them an overall +2 to stats. Nice, but not too overpowered.

How about a racial attack. Headbutt- requires 5 meters or 15 feet running start. Binocular vision and high Dex give them a +4 to hit. Bony plates and sharp beak give them 4d6 damage.

I kind of like the 4 foot high model. They would have long arms with elbows that almost reach the ground so they stand and walk with their arms folded up. They would have a "wingspan" of about 12 feet. They would have a slight (15 degree) forward lean from their hips, counterbalanced by their 3 foot tail.

When I said the armor and fighter could look like a pterodactyl, I didn't mean that in the literal sense. I meant they could be stylized, kind of like how Batmans stuff looks vaguely bat like. I really do like the sharp lines and angles though. That's something that can show up in all of the Ulvars architecture.

Yep, I really like the 4 ft tall angle too (the 6ft tall idea is a bit too standard) althouhg
i was heavily influenced by the fact I am currently reading Harry Turteldove and his aliens
"The Race" are only about 4ft tall, still I guess imitation is the most sincere form of flattery
Their tails could drag on the ground too, I really like the pterodactyl like arrow head tail

Yep, you are spot on about the limbs, bigger but still thinner than a humans
I like the whole lighter and more manouverable idea, I was thinking +4 but lets go for +3
(I still want to read up on eagles eyes though,s ee if we get anymore advantages,
need to find out if their eyes are going to be placed squarely one on each side of their heads
- if so we can give them the low chance to be surprised roll a 1 on a D6 I think )

agree with the -2 CON
the STR bit is still a problem, I like the +1 due to the strength required to fly, large pectoral muscles etc
think it might be simpler jus t to keep it like that

Totally agree with the -2 to Will and Charisma

I LOVE the headbutt, racial attack, heh,heh

Appearance - no modifiers between their own kind anyhow

goping to go away and think about the caste modifiers
gotta go to work jus t now so cant think about it now

hmm, I dunno about the arms folded up bit though
the tail as counterbalance kind of goes aagians t my idea of it dragging on the ground
I dont really know if we want them all overbalaced like that
lets think about it

I do love the sharp angles for everything they make idea
still steering away from the batman/pterodactyle style stuff though

Hmmm, definetly want them to be 4 ft tall now, kinda funny
especially if their "devil" tails drag on the ground behind them

Ok, I had an idea to explain away why they have those
vaguely jigsaw shaped bony protruding plates (and/or ridges but I prefer the plates)
on the tops of their heads (THe bony beaks are just a by product I think, calciified I dunno)

Basically, I was thinking of stags, they have a mating season every year (or they did have when they were birds)
and it is only during this short period (dunno how long, better check my nature books, guessing 2-3 months) that they mate and procreate the species (kind of fits with them, big eggeries and stuff)

Anyhow, I figure, that like stags, they compete over the females (maybe less females to males kind of thing) and part of their comptetion, mating ritual (when they were birds/pterodactyl type things) was a ritualised combat (though it can be deadly) involving the two birds clashing off against each other with fierce headbutts, hence the growth of the
bony plates on the head

hmm, dunno, is it only mammals (and not birds/dinosaurs that have mating season) maybe there is no mating season but they still fight over the ladies anyhow, hence the bony plates
Maybe they shed them and grow new ones each year like stags or would it be better if they were permanent
(probnably better if they were permanent, only coming to term in full maturity kind of thing - so soft heads til get older)
so do we need stats for immature Ulvar?

Oh, and clearly females dont have the bony plates on their heads

I figure the females may only really be "appreciated" by the males when they (the females) are in "heat"
does this fit for birds I dont know

Thinking about Intelligence, if they have any "crow" in them they should be qiute smart/cunning so maybe a +1 int is appropriate - definetly based on pterodactyls though I guess they evolved into birds and then Ulvar?
Should have a relatively long lifespan too (like crows) thouhg less than humans (maybe 1-10 = childhood, 10-20 = adolescence, 20-30 = maturity, 30-40 = old age)

eyesight, got this from a site about the American Bald Eagle

"Did you know that bald eagles have remarkably good eyesight? They can see four to seven times better than people. They can see things from a very far distance of up to one mile. This characteristic enables them to search for their food high up in the sky or from a perch in a tree or cliff. "

so, need to bring this across in some way

Maybe the workers should get a -4 to will
the Intellegentsia (whatever we are going to call tehm) get no minus (or they couldnt be academics really)

the warriors (high ranks get no minus, other ranks get -1 or 2)

what do you think?

It's all up to you Alan, I'm just feeding you ideas and generally being a sounding board for you. You're doing great!

Thanks Scott

what do you think of the explanation for them evolving the sort
of 'fused' bony plates on their heads?

when we are talking about the length of their arms, yes, you are right, if we are being 'realistic'
(as opposed to just giving the 'illusion' of wings that have evolved into arms) their arms should probably be
about 6ft long each offering 12ft wingspan (seems about right)

but how about, fo rthe sake of the look of the creatures, we fudge it and give them 'gorilla' like arms, ie. when they stand up fully their knuckles drag on the ground, their arms are 'slightly' too long for their bodies
and we give that visual effect without making their arms look ridiculously long and out of place

if we give them arms like this I figure they must be just over 4ft in length each so you would still have a viable
8-9ft wingspan I guess

There is no reason that the males can't have thick plates on top of their heads for headbutting. It can be for "ram-like" dominance rituals. Perhaps they have stopped these rituals as they have become more civilized. Or, both genders could have developed the plates as a defense mechanism against a predator. It's easy enough to justify almost any physical feature you want to give them. So make them look the way you want, and we'll help you justify the features.

The arms will likely have shrunk in length as they were no longer needed for flight, so you could make them any length and be able to justify it. If the arms have shrunk down noticeably though, then you have to justify the tail not receding as well. The tail needs to serve some viable purpose, or genetically speaking, it would disappear faster than the arms would shrink. I suppose you could put a poison stinger on it and call it a defense mechanism. Otherwise, I think they need to have a forward lean to them so that they require the tail for balance. Unless you say that they are excellent climbers and use their tails like a monkey, for grabbing and balance. I guess it depends on how you perceive them to have developed.

Perhaps you should try giving a complete physical description of them now that you have a bunch of material to work with. Then we can justify the parts. Then describe their history, culture and technology. Then we will have the data needed to assign stats. (I know, it sounds easier than it is, but you're almost there!)

Hi Scott,
thanks very much for the kind comments

I guess Ineed to give them the forwardlean then
as I really want to keep the tails (for balance )

I cant do the work tonite
things to do and then going to bed (theres a bit of a storm going on here and I have a headace, for storm, read, the wind's blowing a bit hard )

but I will get this done
dont know how long it will take me to get some kind of
culture written up for them though, sounds harder than the actual
creation of the beastie in the first place

Still like the caste idea, do you reckon this has legs?

I still think the females shouldnthave the fused bony plates on their
heads, good to make them different somehowand their having them
doesnt fit with the mating ritual butting idea

anyhow, I'm thoroughly enjoying this process
speak to you soon

Hi again guys,

I still havent been able to get the time to work on this
(and I couldnt print out all the past posts at work as we got in trouble for printing too much stuff out )

But I want to get this done and will do, just need time is all

Been thinking more abou t the tail
I still like it
but i dont know if I want them to have to be forward leaning
(too much like dinosaurs there)

I would much rather have them upright
does this mean lose the tail
maybe we can keep a stump or something (liek a rottwieler?)

I don't see why you can't keep the tail and keep them upright. I think you have to make the tail less rigid, and less bulky though or they would be off balance. So maybe say that the tail no longer has bones, but is cartilage instead. This would make it lighter and less rigid. I would think it should weigh less than 10 Lb.(4k) or it would start messing with balance. I'm thinking if they made the transition from flyers to tree dwellers to ground dwellers, then you could say that their tails went from rudders to prehensile and are now shrinking back to nothing. But that process is still in transition. Just some thoughts for you to ponder. Happy holidays!

Happy Holidays Scott

Yep, I kind of envision them being kind of like long cats tails but with the "devil" arrow head on the tip
that might work, they could hang down and drag on the ground for the most part