HinterWelt Fora

So, the basic premise:

The world ended in 1944 when a Nazi scientist named Johann Eckhert detonated a super weapon. He thought he was testing it but it turned out the Gestapo had linked vast amounts of spiritual energy to it in hopes of enhancing its power. Despite the apparent lack of a nuclear like explosion, merely the destruction of the lab and all his staff, the actual effect was far larger. The universe, in a blink of an eye, was wiped out. Like a fading echo, the aftershocks are the reality we currently live in.

If you question it too closely, you will slip out of existence.

If you believe something strongly enough, it will be so (UFOs, witchcraft, ghosts). This is called the "Echo Effect" by those who know better.

Before all this, many universes lived in parallel but subordinate space with our (the Prime) universe. Individuals from those worlds could sometimes manifest themselves in our world, as ghosts or supernatural beings. However, this was a rare and exceptional event, both short lived and usually fatal for those attempting it. Since the End, the Echo People as they are called, have an easier time of it. They are able to pass to our world both as ghostly "spirits" and some, as corporeal beings. Some are on our side to save our world while others work against us.

Meta Discussion
The players would be:
Paranormal investigators fighting individual Echo People with no knowledge of the grand scheme of things. They could have powers but there should be a system where you can "believe" your weapons/equipment are more powerful. Essentially, mind over matter. This would be the Dresden Files that Jim was talking about.

Part of an organization (there would be several) of individuals fighting for calming the Echo and stabilizing our universe if not outright restoring it. Some theories on this point would include getting to Eckhert, he is somehow the key to all this. Reassembling Eckhert's machine which should have Echo effects built into them. Defeating as many of the Echo people and forcing them from our reality as possible. Related to this would be that the Echo People are believed to have a machine that is increasing the Echo.

Magic casters in the real world. Essentially, runnign around with Echo Effects causing problems. This would be the most boring idea in my opinion but hey, I could see some folks getting off on it.

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HinterWelt Enterprises
Bill Corrie
815-557-7365

as written in my email to Bill:


I'm a little confused on the concept.

What I gather is that it takes place in the present.
However, in reality the present is just an echo (sort
of like the false reality in the matrix if that makes
sense?) of 1944 when the ultimate weapon caused the
quantum shift. The quantum shift caused the echo which
brought with it magic,demons, and general weirdness.

If I have it right, it sound pretty cool.

Is the Echo uniform across the world? Is the resonance
stronger or weaker in some areas?

It takes place in the present. It is not like the world is over run by mystic creatures but more like you would see in a classic horror movie, things that go bump in the night, isolated vampires or even aliens would fall into this.

As for the uniformity of the Echo, hrm, not sure. What do you think? Initially I am inclined to say it is on such a scope (the universe) that any variation would not make a difference. From an adventure hook, it would be neat to have variation. Now, Echo Effects could vary with the beliefs of the local population. If everyone believes the house on the hill is haunted, it will be.

The Echo is just an impression left over from our universe. It is a subjective consciousness that we all enforce. If we believe that the world is going to be hit by a meteor it will be. If we all believed the rapture was coming it would. This is why I want one organization that does nothing but sow organized chaos. They want lots of different religious beliefs. They want people to disbelieve the idea of meteors. No one is sure if you need total buy in or just a majority.

So, sort of matrixy but no "I wake to the real world". This is the real world...or was the real world. Now, we are living in the fading afterglow.

Bill

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Bill Corrie
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Echo Effects or Magic
Echo Effects is purely mind over matter. The only real thing in the universe is consciousness. To that end, your perception effects your Echo effect. If you believe there is a spoon, there is a a spoon. More than that, If the ten people next to you believe there is a spoon they can enforce their perception on you.

So, we have three levels of people effecting echo effects. The masses who believe the world works in a normal way. The Enlightened, who have seen an echo effect in an undeniable way. Finally, the "Wizards" (don't like that name) who use echo effects regularly. The Enlightened and Wizards do not effect the casting of Echo Effects while the masses will build a -1 to the effect. Get a crowd of 20 and you will have difficulty manifesting anything. Wizards may help in manifesting for a +1 for each working with the main wizard.

Nature of Echo Effects
I am thinking it should be mostly in the physical. For instance, mind reading should not be possible or at least very unlikely. Manifestations should be things like teleportation, intangibility, invulnerability, energy manifestation, object creation and such.

Thoughts?

Bill

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Bill Corrie
815-557-7365

If you don't like wizard, what about "adept" or "medium"? Are they more fitting?

Woudl telekinesis and such be included also? Could you move, or see, through small windows of time (moments, not years), or is the Echo limited solely to planes?

I need to re-read the write-up you posted. In case I didn't miss it, how would you kill someone or some thing in the Echo if you are in the Prime plane?

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Go Microsoft! (Hi, Bill!)

Adept might work. I will have to think on it some.

TK is definitely in, it would deal with space and movement of items. "Real World" stuff. Time is tough. On one side I would say yes since it is a case of the world being effected by the Echo and time is a factor as the Echo fades. On the other hand, it would be much more questionable since what future would you be seeing? A series of events in an imaginary universe? The people would effect those events with Echo Effects. I am not sure. What do you guys think?

Well, in many cases killing an Echo Person would be much the same as killing a Prim plane person. This is because they must take form of a prime plane being to do anything beyond looking like ghosts. However, some are able to take powerful forms. So, if you believe your bullets will kill the demon, then they will. Thus, if someone thinks they are facing a werewolf and believes their silver bullets will kill it, then they will. However, an Echo Person who is not fully materialized on our plane will be intangible. I doubt any normal means would effect them...perhaps an Echo Effect.

Sound good?

Bill

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Bill Corrie
815-557-7365

Could that open the door for new spells? A sub-group of Echo Spells, good only for/against Echo plane (i.e. no effect on prime plane beings or Echo beings fully materialized on Prime plane)?

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Go Microsoft! (Hi, Bill!)

Actually, the ideas I had right away were things like detecting Echo people and effects. Possible a localized stability that negates Echo effects or increases them. The ability to see Rifts int he Echoes and use them to travel between places, time and dimensions.

However, if you meant set spells as in Tales and the like...I doubt it. I do not know if list spells would work as well.

Now, one idea, would be to have Rites or Rotes. These would be effects that the Adept practices in play or could buy as a historical enhancement. It would allow the automatic casting (no rolls) of a specified effect in a non-combat environment. Meaning you would have plenty of time and no pressure and cast it off. You would still incur the -3 casting penalty for an effect.

How do you like those apples?

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HinterWelt Enterprises
Bill Corrie
815-557-7365

You know, this is starting to sound like a forgielite game. Which is not a bad thing.

So assuming we are using the same system, shoudl there be a piety based mechanic that repersents how strongly you "believe" which intern determines how strong your echo effects are?

Not sure what that means...Forge-like? I am not sure what would make it so but you have had a lot more exposure to such games than me so I defer to your experience sir.


Definitely. I envision the Echo Effects system as using the Free Form magic system and having a Piety check. The second check I am not so sure on. One side of me thinks CON as your system tries to recover from the shock of, essentially, wishing your reality out of existence for a moment. Alternatively, I could easily see WIS as a test of your mental strength and sanity to make sure you keep it together. I could even see a sanity function coming out of this.

Also, Iridium Standard or Iridium Lite? I am leaning towards standard but could make an argument for lite.

Bill

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HinterWelt Enterprises
Bill Corrie
815-557-7365

yeah, while I like the light system and it works well for Supers Inc, SA! and the sort, I think Echo would best suited to the full system.

Free form seems to work right for what you are after here. My next question is:

Should Piety be static or a fluctuating? IMO, for this purpose, Piety could be totally dependant on what the PC's encounter during game play. Sort of like the way insanity in CoC works.

Well, we could link it to or make it the Sanity meter as you suggest. I do not know if we need another stat.

The question is, should we go with Piety or break out a separate Sanity meter? A sanity meter could be the average of PIE and WIS. To be honest though, I kind of like the idea of using PIE. Although, to throw another idea in, using a separate Sanity meter would allow an Adept to become more proficient at casting as the meter rose/fell. In other words, as you lost your grip on reality you get better at creating Echo Effects.

Interesting.

Bill

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HinterWelt Enterprises
Bill Corrie
815-557-7365

Ok, what I mean is that we use Piety as some sort of sanity meter.

So lets say your PC has an experience that twist his sense of reality and it makes him believe certain things exist (or makes him believe more at leasst). In this case his piety goes up. If later in the campaign he has another experience that makes him think something else does not exist (or otherwise weakens his belief) then the peity goes down.

We are saying the same thing. I just suggested a separate meter to allow other mechanics to be attached.

So, let's go with PIE as a floating stat. What should the guidelines for modifications be?

How about:
1. Critical failures on Echo Effects. This would be the rolling a 20 vs a PIE or WIS check then a high number (18-20) on the backlash tables.

2. Some Echo People will have this effect. Run into a Cthulean type monstrosity and you might loose a point or two. It could even be a stat/ability of the Echo People.

3. Extraordinary but non-supernatural event. This would be a tough one but something like Fritz, your best buddy, gets ground to hamburger in front of you. This would be a world view altering event so stubbing your toe would not do it. I would limit this to minor 1 point kind of mod.

4. Some Echo People would have the ability to "fix" you more firmly in your reality. This would be a rare but special ability and would be 1-3 point drop in PIE.

The problem I am facing is I can see a lot of ways to raise PIE but very few ways to drop it. We could use drugs and alcohol saying that use of them would drop PIE since it affects your perception. I am open to suggestions.

Bill

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HinterWelt Enterprises
Bill Corrie
815-557-7365

I think you would also need to account for the strentgh of the Echo veil by location. If ones belief effects the veil - you should take into account the thousands who believe the present reality - therefore centers of high popultion would be very difficult to operate in as you have the "unitentional" belief of the masses supporting the norm.

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