HinterWelt Fora

I am a universal system guy myself but some folks talk about seriously focused games. By this I mean a situation where:

1. The system reinforces the setting. More than "It has some specialized skills" but the core mechanics are some how arranged to not support play in other genres.

2. The scope of the setting is such to make it focused in one area. So, you play some rabid western squirrels out to brand Christianity on any who oppose you and all the material supports that, and only that.

Now, as way of disclosure, I do not believe in the micro-game. I believe any system that supports task resolution may be adapted to another genre. You may not want the elements of that system or the way it reproduces the task resolution but others might. For example, I have never, remotely, enjoyed d20/dnd in sci-fi. It just does not work for me. Does that mean it does not work for sci-fi? Absolutely not, just not for me.

So, can anyone give me hardcore examples of micro-game mechanics that restrict you to the genre of the setting? i.e. could I play space pirates with ditv?

Thanks,
Bill

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HinterWelt Enterprises
Bill Corrie
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While I understand what you're getting at the sort of system that you're asking about isn't really constructed around a single core mechanic. Gamma World is Gamma World because of it's system, which is multi-faceted and included a variety of mechanics. The setting really has nothing to do with the mechanic used as the not very well recieved D20 incarnation proved.

If you ever read the discussions many people pointed to Darwin's World as being a system that did Gamma World better than D20 Gamma World, yet both were D20. Why?

Because it's not the task resolution system that defines genre. It's flavor text. Also, a lot depends on how a task resolution system is employed. I can create a task resolution system right now. Task Resolution is the easy part.

VIZ. Player A (the attacker) will take a 2D4 and roll, their result is called the Terminus. Player B (the defender) will take a D8 and roll, this is called, oh, let's say Optimus.

If the Optimus is greater than the Terminus then the attack failed. If, hoever, it is equal to the Terminus score then the situation is stalemated. But if if the Optimus value is less than the Terminus value then the attack was successful.

I totally made that up right now with no genre in mind. I'm not saying that's a viable task resolution system but it is a basic task resolution mechanic. What genre does it sound best suited for? Why?

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Currently working on Mutant Dawn.

See, what brought this up for me is the conversion going on for Roma True20. Matthew has done a great job preserving the setting but the system gets in the way of the elements of Roma Iridium. What I mean is, Roma True20 does not have the same feel as Roma Iridium. The obvious ones are Roma Iridium is much more deadly. You can lose a hand or be killed in the first attack. True20 is more "epic".

To be clear, I am not saying "it does not work" but more "It will appeal to different people". The Elements of play are different. Do not get me wrong, in your Gamma World example, how much of it was implementation of the conversion vs not speaking to the player base expectations? I imagine a little of both.

I don;t know, my views are not very popular since a lot of people seem to think their system is a special snow flake that can only work for the game they made it in. I think it has to do with a concept I hold as silly which is "System Matters". I personally think it does, but no the way people have mentioned. System matters in terms of the elements it presents. Quick death vs Epic, level of general skill competency, how magic is treated and anything else you care to name. System does not matter from a "can it do this genre".

And, I could easily be totally wrong on this. It si why I brought it up.

Bill

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HinterWelt Enterprises
Bill Corrie
815-557-7365

But is it because the task resolution mechanic is more "epic" or because the system implements the mechanic(s) to create a more "epic" feel.

The basic task resolution mechanic of AD&D is a roll vs. TN. This system can be implemented in any number of ways, the original makers of AD&D chose to implement it using a D20 and rolling against a static resolution chart keyed to armour type. However Bard Games, who put out the Atlantean Trilogy, also used a roll vs. TN task resolution mechanic that utilized a D20, however their implementation was entirely different. Just as is the implementation of the core mechanic in D20 today.

While I don't think you can really say a task resolution system is better suited for any specific genre when you get a popular system used in a game that's fitted to a specific genre you tend to think of that mechanic in terms of said genre.

Thus, as you say. .



Exactly. And, let's not forget, the Alternity version of Gamma World wasn't entirely well recieved either. But it had nothing to do with the task resolution mechanic so much as it did with the flavor text, or rather certain elements lacking in the flavor text. Namely, IIRC, the lack of certain mutant types.

It would be like putting out a new edition of AD&D without Elves or Dwarves, it wouldn't really feel like AD&D anymore.



System doesn't matter as much as the implementation of said system. If you have a really solid task resolution system but implement it poorly for your chosen milieu it's just as bad as having a shoddy system in place.

And, yes, I have another Gamma World example for you.

Gamma World 3rd ED. This was really my first edition of Gamma World but, to play it, we had to do away with the ACT chart. It just didn't really work. In fact I blame that silly chart for breaking up campaigns that would have lasted much longer if T$R hadn't decided to overlay their silly Marvel super heroes mechanic onto Gamma World. It just wasn't a good fit.

I'm not saying it was a terrible system, just that it didn't really appear that any effort was put into adapting it to the setting. Or thoroughly play testing it. Not that I'm bitter or anything.

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Currently working on Mutant Dawn.

I believe changing the mechanics of a game does change a dynamic of the game. Even though machanics are mechanics and the really should be secondary to the setting - those mechanics can effect fundamental elements of the game. Take Cthulhu for example - one of the appeals of the game is that you play a "common joe" and the focus of the game has not been so much on your character in a story - but the story your character is caught up in. Now I know that you can argue this with many different settings - but with the shift to D20 Cthulhu there was a shift in the emphasis in the game - it was no longer group survival in the face of insurmountable odds- but how can I rack up point to develope the character. This made for a distinct change in the flavor of the game. The magic system change as well as a clunkier set of mechanics for movement and initiative, and the fragility of the characters was lessened. What was discovered was - those raised on the classic BRP, which is very intuitive and fast moving, loathed the D20. However, those who had strong inclination for D20 found the game very comfortable. The d20 book is an excellent book - great graphics, great fiction, great background info. . . and having run both system - they were equally as easy to run or write for.

I think that the same was true with Traveller and Gamma World. The D20 books are solid books, but in changing the mechanics an element of the game that was present in the old system, was not present in the new. This doesn't make the D20 books deficient - just different. Ole-timers will pick up on the missing nuances at the start, but people new to the setting and and familiar with D20 will also enjoy the setting because they will never miss the nuances of the old.

It comes down to a matter of taste. . . I personally don't care for D20 - not that I find the mechanics unbearable, I just don't like it. . .

Now the death of Alternity, my soul still mourns that game. . .

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Momento Mori
MU SKULLS
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And this is what I mean by Elements. Those pieces that appeal to a player or group. That, to me, is where system matters. I can run any genre with any system. The problems I usually face is that a player who has played MERP for years declares definitively that D20 cannot run Tolkein and then goes about doing their best to fulfill that statement.

So, player expectations may not mesh with the elements presented by a system but I do not think a system is tied to a genre. Then again, I am not a big simulationist.

Bill

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HinterWelt Enterprises
Bill Corrie
815-557-7365